Sunday, November 8, 2026

Why Did Jeffrey Sachs Take Pope Leo’s AI Letter to World Leaders

Blogger note:seldom used word : HUBRIS = The most common synonyms for hubris are arrogance, pride, conceit, and overconfidence   

 Why Did Jeffrey Sachs Take Pope Leo’s AI Letter to World Leaders

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jZeovCJcXU  

     

  15K view as of today


 Economist Jeffrey Sachs has advised governments through some of the most consequential geopolitical transformations of the past half-century, including the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe.  

A longtime collaborator with Vatican institutions, Sachs has worked on issues of economic justice, peace and international development under several popes, beginning with Saint John Paul II. Now, he is drawing attention to Pope Leo XIV’s warnings about artificial intelligence, personally delivering the pope’s message to world leaders during a journey across Eurasia inspired by Marco Polo. 

 In this conversation, Sachs reflects on his encounters with Saint John Paul II, his role in Poland’s transition from communism, and why he believes the end of the Cold War was a missed opportunity for lasting peace. He challenges the idea that the United States won the Cold War, and explains why he believes American foreign policy has become dangerously focused on global dominance. 

Turning to the present, Sachs considers the significance of an American pope at a time of shifting world power and recounts his self-appointed mission to bring Pope Leo XIV’s message on artificial intelligence to political and religious leaders across Eurasia. 

He also explains why he believes the Catholic Church has a unique role to play in preventing global conflict and shaping a more peaceful 

 :00 – Introduction 1:54 – Jeffrey Sachs and His Controversial Vatican Appointment 3:06 – How Pope Leo XIV’s AI Message Is Being Received 4:06 – Delivering Pope Leo’s AI Encyclical to World Leaders 6:43 – Was Jeffrey Sachs Acting as the Pope’s Messenger? 7:11 – Meeting John Paul II During the Fall of Communism 8:49 – John Paul II, Gorbachev and the Collapse of the Soviet Union 11:31 – Did America Misunderstand the End of the Cold War? 14:16 – What Does an American Pope Mean for World Politics? 18:33 – Pope Leo XIV, China and the End of Western Dominance 22:38 – Is the AI Race a New Cold War? 24:08 – Why Artificial Intelligence Could Be as Dangerous as Nuclear Weapons 26:09 – Jeffrey Sachs on Big Tech, Greed and AI Safety 27:19 – The Mistakes of 1991—and the Global Crisis Today 33:55 – Does Jeffrey Sachs Speak for the Vatican?

 TRANSCRIPT 

 

0 seconds
We're at one of the most delicate moments of human [music] history. I have had the great honor to be involved with
9 seconds
the Vatican calls for social justice for a long time.
13 seconds
How did it start? Do you remember the first time somebody from the Vatican reached out? Well, it was in 1991.
20 seconds
I was adviser to the Polish government and I played a rather significant role actually in the democratization of Poland.
29 seconds
That put you on John Paul II's radar.
31 seconds
I think uh it's fair to say the Pope had some interest in what was going on. I was personally in the room the day the
39 seconds
Soviet Union ended sitting across from Boris Yelen.
43 seconds
Do you think that the AI race is something like a new cold war? The first
50 seconds
encyclical of Pope Leo is about artificial intelligence in Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Usbekiststan,
59 seconds
Kazakhstan, and China. I gave a copy of the encyclical to leaders in all of those countries and discussed it with
1 minute, 7 seconds
them. Actually, the rise of American power has been something that you think is one of the principal obstacles to peace.
1 minute, 15 seconds
Unfortunately, the mindset of [music] the United States of primacy is intrinsically a mindset don't tell us what to do. Our system is shortsighted.
1 minute, 26 seconds
It's impulsive. Uh it aims to dominate.
1 minute, 28 seconds
It aims for greed. It is not working properly. listeners [music] will listen to everything that you've
1 minute, 36 seconds
said and the spirit in which you've said it and wonder how representative is this Vatican advisor's political perspective of the Vatican itself.
1 minute, 54 seconds
Jeffrey Saxs, thank you for sitting down with Catholic News Service.
1 minute, 56 seconds
What a pleasure. Thank you. Your 2021 appointment to the Pontipical Academy for Social Sciences was seen as controversial in some quarters. Do you know why?
2 minutes, 6 seconds
Uh no, wasn't controversial in our home.
2 minutes, 9 seconds
[laughter] I was delighted. I was thrilled. Uh and um I have been working with the Pontipical Academy of Sciences
2 minutes, 17 seconds
and Pontipical Academy of Social Sciences for a long time and a long time before that. So it was a great honor and
2 minutes, 24 seconds
very nice occasion but it was a continuation of of a lot of work.
2 minutes, 29 seconds
There are areas of agreement and disagreement but that you have with the Vatican. How did those come up in the work that you do with the Pontipical Academy?
2 minutes, 39 seconds
I think uh the uh areas uh where I work here have been areas where I've been
2 minutes, 47 seconds
inspired by the Catholic social teachings and by the Vatican's role and leadership. I uh have had the the great
2 minutes, 57 seconds
honor to be involved with the Vatican uh uh calls for social justice for a long
3 minutes, 6 seconds
time. You know the United States, you know China, and you know the Vatican. How do you
3 minutes, 12 seconds
think that Pope Leo's message about artificial intelligence and peace in the
3 minutes, 18 seconds
world is received on in both China and the United States? What are the both the challenges of reception on each side?
3 minutes, 28 seconds
I think uh first a great encyclical like this one uh percolates over time. Uh, we saw that
3 minutes, 37 seconds
with the Leato C and we saw it with Futelli Tuti also. Did you help write those by the way? Pardon me. Did you help draft those?
3 minutes, 44 seconds
No, not a word. But I did read them many many times. But I did uh engage in many conferences cuz people said you helped draft them.
3 minutes, 53 seconds
No, I did not uh I did not help draft a single word of them. uh but I did as I said participate in many conferences
4 minutes
where uh leaders came and scientific leaders came to talk about these issues.
4 minutes, 6 seconds
Uh in terms of how Magnifica Humanitas was received um let me just say I was uh
4 minutes, 15 seconds
thrilled and uh honored and uh tickled to carry the encyclical with me on a road trip that I took this past summer.
4 minutes, 24 seconds
Uh we took a Marco Polo drive from Rome to Hong Kong. Wow.
4 minutes, 30 seconds
In electric vehicles uh mostly in electric cars uh and also an electric
4 minutes, 36 seconds
rail a bit and uh in Slovenia, Croatia,
4 minutes, 42 seconds
[snorts]
4 minutes, 43 seconds
uh Serbia, uh Usbekiststan, Kazakhstan and China. I gave a copy of the
4 minutes, 52 seconds
encyclical to leaders in all of those countries because I thought the message was so important. Did the Vatican put you up to that?
5 minutes
The Vatican did not put me up to it, but I I I did inform Pope Leo that I would like to do that and that was okay.
5 minutes, 10 seconds
[laughter]
5 minutes, 11 seconds
That that was okay.
5 minutes, 12 seconds
So when you said you gave it to leaders like who? I gave it to the presidents of many many countries uh and to uh the the
5 minutes, 20 seconds
top officials of many countries uh and um discussed it with them actually uh and why it was important and what the messages were.
5 minutes, 28 seconds
Can you give me some concrete examples of things that were said? You don't have to necessarily attribute them but in these meetings that you'd have with
5 minutes, 36 seconds
world leaders, national leaders when you hand them a paper document.
5 minutes, 40 seconds
Well, first of all, they were uh very honored. um all of them uh very
5 minutes, 47 seconds
interested. Uh there are a lot of intelligent leaders, thank God. Uh not all by any means, but uh several uh and
5 minutes, 56 seconds
so some were very much already worrying about and thinking about artificial intelligence. I had the profound uh
6 minutes, 5 seconds
pleasure and honor to also give the document not only to political leaders but to other religious leaders uh to his
6 minutes, 13 seconds
all holiness the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople patriarch Bartholomew
6 minutes, 22 seconds
uh who received the document with joy and told my wife and me about all the visits
6 minutes, 31 seconds
that he's already had with the pope and the ones that are coming up and how excited he is. Uh, and I like that ecumenical uh view as well.
6 minutes, 43 seconds
It's quite a courier service you're performing.
6 minutes, 45 seconds
Well, yes. You know, it's a it is a special treat to be courier. uh not exactly courier because it's not an
6 minutes, 53 seconds
assigned courier role but um but I I like to think uh in some tiny way
6 minutes, 59 seconds
playing a a bit of a bridge but I handed the document to Chinese leaders and to others and I want them to read it. It's
7 minutes, 8 seconds
very important that we have this global discussion.
7 minutes, 11 seconds
How did it start? Well, do you remember the first time somebody from the Vatican reached out and said what? Well, it was in 1991.
7 minutes, 21 seconds
Uh, I was adviser to the Polish government. I was their main foreign
7 minutes, 26 seconds
economic adviser in 1989. and I played a a rather significant role actually in
7 minutes, 34 seconds
that year in the democratization of Poland uh in their political strategy if I may say so because it was the case and
7 minutes, 43 seconds
in that put you on John Paul II's radar and their economic strategy. I think uh it's fair to say the pope had some
7 minutes, 50 seconds
interest in what was going on and um when we had an audience with him in 1991
8 minutes
um on the occasion of his writing the encyclical Santis Mosanos on on the
8 minutes, 8 seconds
100th anniversary of Ram Navarum uh he quizzed me quite a bit actually over
8 minutes, 14 seconds
lunch about exactly what was happening in the Polish economy. What were the ideas? What was the strategy? And um
8 minutes, 22 seconds
that was quite a an interesting interrogation I would say for me. Very very interesting.
8 minutes, 28 seconds
What kinds of Well, what stands out in your memory that Yeah.
8 minutes, 31 seconds
Well, just he was extremely engaged in wanting to understand uh the the big economic changes and what was going to
8 minutes, 40 seconds
happen. Was the economy going to be okay? How will people deal with these changes? Do you think he was instrumental as many commentators have
8 minutes, 49 seconds
said that he was in the collapse of communism and the transformation of Poland? He was definitely a great and
8 minutes, 58 seconds
key figure in that. I would like also to give uh profound credit to Mikl
9 minutes, 6 seconds
Gorbachov uh who um is not well remembered inside Russia right now
9 minutes, 12 seconds
because he's associated with economic crisis and economic collapse and so forth. And Gorbachov was a a man of
9 minutes, 21 seconds
reform and most importantly and to his uh eternal credit in my view he was a
9 minutes, 29 seconds
man of peace. Uh and so we had Pope John Paul 2 and we had Gorbachov and they were both pushing in the same direction.
9 minutes, 37 seconds
Interestingly enough, uh they were both pushing towards peace. Uh and they were both pushing towards a new freedom and
9 minutes, 45 seconds
uh it led to the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the end, which may not have been Gorbachov's intention, but his
9 minutes, 54 seconds
greatness was that he not only let it happen, he uh did everything he could to make sure that it happened peacefully.
10 minutes, 3 seconds
Gorbachov, the Soviet leader, called the opposition, the solidarity leader and said, "I think you young people should
10 minutes, 11 seconds
be in the government, and I have spoken to General Yaultski about this." So, it was Gorbachev that brought the two sides
10 minutes, 20 seconds
together. I I will never forget that and few people know that. I think it's really important to understand that
10 minutes, 28 seconds
because so much of what has gone wrong after 1991 in my view is an American
10 minutes, 35 seconds
idea or widely held in America that we won, they lost, now we do what we want.
10 minutes, 41 seconds
But it was not like that. Uh it was a choice that the Soviet leadership made on its own and then the Russian leaders
10 minutes, 50 seconds
made on their own and I advised them both at the highest level. I I was personally in the room the day the
10 minutes, 58 seconds
Soviet Union ended sitting across from Boris Yeltson. So I've seen a lot and it
11 minutes, 4 seconds
was not victory of the US. It was a decision uh by the Russians to uh end
11 minutes, 13 seconds
confrontation to become a normal democratic state. And I wish we had had
11 minutes, 19 seconds
that view rather than the uh the the glory of victory. I wish we had had the view of the uh ethics of cooperation as our response to that.
11 minutes, 31 seconds
I know from your other interviews that the that the the rise of American power has been something that you correct me
11 minutes, 38 seconds
if I'm wrong. You think is one of the re one of the principal obstacles to peace.
11 minutes, 44 seconds
And just speaking to you now, I I want to ask, do you think that the story of of the
11 minutes, 52 seconds
collapse of communism and the role of John Paul II has been used by certain
11 minutes, 59 seconds
certain commentators in the Catholic American world uh incorrectly.
12 minutes, 9 seconds
on the whole aside from uh you know individuals here and there I don't think
12 minutes, 15 seconds
the Catholic voice overall has uh used these events uh uh in uh in an incorrect
12 minutes, 24 seconds
way. Um but what I can say uh definitively
12 minutes, 33 seconds
uh is uh and from personal experience is that a certain grandiosity
12 minutes, 40 seconds
arose in uh the senior reaches of American politics in 1991 onward. That is a very dangerous thing.
12 minutes, 52 seconds
a a hubris that is a a very very dangerous thing. The hubris was the worst in the 1990s because it set us on
13 minutes, 2 seconds
a path and basically the uh we we actually had expressions of it. Uh uh
13 minutes, 10 seconds
our uh secretary of state at the time Maline Albbright under uh Clinton said we are the indispensable nation.
13 minutes, 20 seconds
It's a quite a self-proclamation by the way. You know, we are 4% of the world to call yourself the indispensable nation.
13 minutes, 27 seconds
You may believe it, but I wouldn't read one's own press releases, frankly. So, all of this is to say that hubris that
13 minutes, 36 seconds
came in 1991, that really is a sin. Uh hubris is one of the great human
13 minutes, 44 seconds
weaknesses. uh and uh every thinking philosopher for the last 2500 years uh
13 minutes, 52 seconds
not to mention the Bible, not to mention Egyptian ancient wisdom, not to mention Confucious and all the rest warned
14 minutes
against Hubers. Uh and we fell into that trap in my opinion. Americans, many American leaders disagree with me. Many
14 minutes, 8 seconds
American politicians resent that I say it, but that is my view. I think that what you're describing is part of the
14 minutes, 16 seconds
concern that the College of Cardinals always had in electing an American as pope, but they did that.
14 minutes, 24 seconds
What do you think it changes geopolitically that the Pope is an American given everything you've said?
14 minutes, 29 seconds
I think it's uh absolutely the most fascinating, [laughter] remarkable
14 minutes, 35 seconds
uh event and point. uh and uh I'm very thrilled by it. Pope Leo
14 minutes, 44 seconds
arrives at a time of huge geopolitical change. Uh this is one of the most
14 minutes, 52 seconds
complicated periods of um of uh history of the last centuries because in my view
15 minutes
uh and again many people don't like to hear my view but in my view this is the
15 minutes, 6 seconds
end of the western dominance uh which was a dominance that began in ascendancy
15 minutes, 14 seconds
around uh 1500 uh with the the the great voyages of discovery and and the
15 minutes, 21 seconds
beginning of European colonization both of the Americas and of and of Asia and really became ascendant in the 19th and
15 minutes, 29 seconds
20th centuries. And I think that phase of history is is over for understandable reasons. and the rise of China and the
15 minutes, 38 seconds
rise of Asia um is a kind of natural in my view uh and understandable and
15 minutes, 46 seconds
analyzable and positive development uh for the world.
15 minutes, 53 seconds
The fact that China is no longer poor uh but has re reassumed a position that it long
16 minutes
held as a prosperous nation is a very very positive thing in my view. Now
16 minutes, 8 seconds
our pope is a very sophisticated person uh intellectually trained uh
16 minutes, 15 seconds
very worldly uh a a great uh knowledge from pastoral experience in Latin
16 minutes, 22 seconds
America to uh leadership experience um of the Catholic world. Um and
16 minutes, 32 seconds
yes, interestingly, he arrives at a time when uh American politics
16 minutes, 39 seconds
remains aimed in in my interpretation at preserving America's uh uh
16 minutes, 49 seconds
privileges and prerogatives in a way that I don't agree with. Uh I don't like an American government kidnapping
16 minutes, 57 seconds
presidents or bombing other nations or declaring uh president declaring that he has a
17 minutes, 5 seconds
difficult choice uh whether to make Iran great or to annihilate that nation. Uh I
17 minutes, 13 seconds
was sitting in the general assembly uh of the UN last week when President Trump said that. I don't approve of uh any
17 minutes, 21 seconds
American president making a statement like that. I the whole idea of any individual saying that he has a choice
17 minutes, 30 seconds
of whether to annihilate another country is uh absolutely in my view uh uh sinful
17 minutes, 38 seconds
uh and uh immoral and illegal both under the US constitution and under the UN
17 minutes, 44 seconds
charter. So uh the pope uh isn't uh here uh expressing uh a US political view at
17 minutes, 54 seconds
all. In fact uh right from the start uh he got a little bit uh entangled by
18 minutes, 1 second
attacks coming from uh the White House and so forth and magnificently um
18 minutes, 9 seconds
proclaimed the the Catholic truth and the Catholic wisdom. and uh he did so with uh great uh dignity and great
18 minutes, 18 seconds
benefit for the world in my view. So yes, it's a very interesting time for an American uh born pope. Uh but this is a
18 minutes, 26 seconds
pope also uh that has a clear worldwide view. I'm I'm just thinking based on
18 minutes, 33 seconds
what we've been discussing that there could be arguably a parallel between John Paul II's Polish identity and what
18 minutes, 42 seconds
he was able to achieve in Poland and Pope Leo's American identity and the kinds of transformations you and perhaps
18 minutes, 50 seconds
he would like to see in American culture.
18 minutes, 51 seconds
Yeah, it's very interesting. I think I think it's probably fair to say that Pope John Paul II had a Polish agenda in
19 minutes, 1 second
a way. Uh he wanted to see a free Poland uh and um probably acted upon that in
19 minutes, 10 seconds
very uh skillful ways in the 1980s and contributed to the peaceful transformation.
19 minutes, 19 seconds
I don't even want to remotely insinuate to even an iod that I have an idea of
19 minutes, 27 seconds
Pope Leo's agenda. So please, I don't want to be misunderstood, but I don't feel that the messages from
19 minutes, 36 seconds
Pope Leo are especially directed at the United States uh in the way that might
19 minutes, 43 seconds
have been a little different in the 1980s with Pope John Paul II. uh the
19 minutes, 50 seconds
first encyclical uh of Pope Leo Magnifica Umanitas is clearly directed
19 minutes, 57 seconds
at the whole world but that's a global agenda right however as you know speaking about AI could easily be a way of speaking
20 minutes, 5 seconds
directly to the the global powers because as you know President Trump himself says if we win AI the AI
20 minutes, 14 seconds
weird statement by the way whoever wins AI wins And I thought, wow, if the world were a
20 minutes, 23 seconds
board game, that would be an interesting statement. But the world is not a board game. It's not a chess board. Uh it is
20 minutes, 31 seconds
uh our only world. It is the world of humanity and it is not about winning and losing.
20 minutes, 38 seconds
But it is but AI is something that only the great powers can afford to actually develop. I think your point is absolutely right and I think uh in this
20 minutes, 47 seconds
sense uh Pope Leo is speaking to all of the world. He's definitely also uh I
20 minutes, 55 seconds
hope being heard by world leaders. I think it's part of the intention because this is uh quite serious and the
21 minutes, 2 seconds
Catholic social teachings have often spoken to world leaders specifically and
21 minutes, 9 seconds
I think what you're saying is also uh correct in a way but I would put it a little bit differently. I don't think
21 minutes, 17 seconds
that uh well I don't know again I sorry to even be uh remotely presumptuous but
21 minutes, 25 seconds
I don't think that the idea of the cardinals or the idea of the pope is an a US agenda. I think it's a world agenda properly. This is the Catholic Church.
21 minutes, 35 seconds
That's the world. Uh but I think that the what is needed in my view in the
21 minutes, 42 seconds
United States more than anything more than anything more than a regulation more than
21 minutes, 51 seconds
a new budget more than uh any policy at all is a change of mindset. And the key
21 minutes, 58 seconds
mindset again which faces a lot of resistance is the difference of aiming
22 minutes, 4 seconds
for primacy versus aiming for living as one among many. To my mind that is the
22 minutes, 12 seconds
most important change that's needed by the United States is we are one of many.
22 minutes, 19 seconds
We should cooperate with the others rather than trying to dominate. And uh I
22 minutes, 25 seconds
think in a way implicitly that is inevitably a message from a pope in the
22 minutes, 33 seconds
tradition of the Catholic social teachings if they listen.
22 minutes, 38 seconds
Do you think that the AI race is something like a new cold war?
22 minutes, 46 seconds
I think the uh AI race first of all should not be a race. Uh when Trump has
22 minutes, 55 seconds
said whoever wins AI wins, oh I sigh every time I think about that
23 minutes, 2 seconds
because I would not want even a child to have that idea.
23 minutes, 9 seconds
Exactly. It's not about winning. Uh it's about well-being. It's about survival.
23 minutes, 16 seconds
uh when uh Daario Ahmadi and uh others have said in recent weeks our technology threatens human survival.
23 minutes, 29 seconds
Um that should have been the most immediate and greatest uh alarm bell imaginable.
23 minutes, 39 seconds
But unfortunately the president uh dismissed it out of hand while standing on a golf course in Ireland and said uh
23 minutes, 47 seconds
we already have a you know a genius as president. We don't need
23 minutes, 53 seconds
anymore. This technology is uh we're going to go forward full speed and whoever wins wins. Uh whoever wins AI
24 minutes, 1 second
wins. And we need something uh much deeper than this. uh and uh the
24 minutes, 8 seconds
encyclical is absolutely right to put a focus on this. Right now, this
24 minutes, 15 seconds
technology is as dangerous in its way as nuclear weapons. And that may sound
24 minutes, 22 seconds
surprising because people say, well, just unplug the computer. But the point is we are so plugged in. We are already
24 minutes, 31 seconds
a digital world and one of the things that's plugged in are missile systems.
24 minutes, 36 seconds
One of the things that are plugged in, of course, is all the world's bank accounts. One of the things that are plugged in is all of the world's water systems and power systems.
24 minutes, 46 seconds
No basic infrastructure in the world, military or civilian, is not plugged in
24 minutes, 54 seconds
right now. And the point of AI is that um what we've seen in recent weeks, it
25 minutes
is so uh effective, it can hack or potentially hack all of those systems.
25 minutes, 6 seconds
It could turn off the water supply. It could turn off the power grid. Doesn't have to do it autonomously in some
25 minutes, 13 seconds
magical way that AI agents uh decide like apparently they have in some sense
25 minutes, 21 seconds
uh that they're going to do this autonomously. it could be malevolently done. So where are the guard rails? And
25 minutes, 28 seconds
the Pope's encyclical is a extraordinarily important and timely statement of this. It's an opening. Uh again, encyclical percolate over time.
25 minutes, 40 seconds
Uh I hope our leadership in the United States reads it and pers. I hope so.
25 minutes, 51 seconds
But certainly it will be widely read and the messages will be cause for reflection and we should note that it
25 minutes, 59 seconds
was issued months before the AI big tech gurus themselves said uh we've got a problem.
26 minutes, 8 seconds
He was ahead of the game.
26 minutes, 9 seconds
He was ahead of the game for sure. And what's so weird about American capitalism is
26 minutes, 17 seconds
it's almost unbelievable about American capitalism is that they said our technology can destroy humanity and
26 minutes, 27 seconds
we'll have an IPO next month. How can these two things go together? They can't. They shouldn't under any
26 minutes, 35 seconds
circumstances. Well, before you have an IPO, let's check on that. let's double check so that you don't destroy humanity. But that's not how our system
26 minutes, 44 seconds
works right now. Our system is shortsighted. It's impulsive. Uh it aims to dominate. It aims for greed. It is
26 minutes, 52 seconds
not working properly. I see a parallel between the front row seat you had
26 minutes, 58 seconds
watching the Soviet Union become modern state of Russia and the pope playing a role in that in Poland. And here you are
27 minutes, 8 seconds
today making a case alongside Pop Leo that this technology should not be a race. Do you see that parallel?
27 minutes, 19 seconds
I feel uh something uh uh very um
27 minutes, 26 seconds
burdensome right now and uh there is definitely a major parallel in in one key sense.
27 minutes, 35 seconds
We had a choice. Uh the United States government had a choice. Uh European governments had a choice in 1991.
27 minutes, 46 seconds
It really was a clear choice. Uh, do we regard the end of the Cold War as a new
27 minutes, 56 seconds
era of peace or do we treat it as a victory that gives us uh all of the
28 minutes, 2 seconds
prerogatives of further wars or uh unilateral action?
28 minutes, 10 seconds
I was, I would say, passionately involved at that time. And I mean it in the sense that I was begging uh
28 minutes, 19 seconds
understand what Gorbachav is trying to do. Understand what Yeltson is trying to do. They're trying to make peace. Help
28 minutes, 28 seconds
them. And um I was pleading uh in 1991
28 minutes, 35 seconds
with the US government. Help Gorbachov provide financing. It's such a small amount, but help them stabilize.
28 minutes, 45 seconds
Well, everything I said failed, I must say, uh, in terms of eliciting that help. It
28 minutes, 54 seconds
never came. And it was almost 30 years later that somebody sent me a document
29 minutes, 2 seconds
that was released in a Freedom of Information Act of a National Security
29 minutes, 8 seconds
Council meeting on June 3rd, 1991 when they took up my proposal. It was
29 minutes, 16 seconds
actually a proposal that I had co-written with uh Gorbachev's chief economic adviser and with some other
29 minutes, 23 seconds
colleagues and it called for largescale financial help for the Soviet Union. And
29 minutes, 30 seconds
you read the minutes and it was heartbreaking for me to see this. Not a surprise exactly, but to see it in black
29 minutes, 39 seconds
and white. Uh what they concluded in the meeting was we don't need to help. We need a good PR package. That's literally
29 minutes, 48 seconds
said by a man named Richard Darman who was the head of the office of management and budget for George Bush Senior in
29 minutes, 56 seconds
1991. And he had been incidentally a former colleague of mine at Harvard University. And he said we need a good
30 minutes, 4 seconds
PR package because Gorbachev is a showman. This was so shocking to read
30 minutes, 11 seconds
the prayerile uh ignorant view of the world that these people
30 minutes, 18 seconds
casually expressed. Hubris is the only word for it. Well, we're in the same moment right now.
30 minutes, 27 seconds
We're at one of the most delicate moments of human history. Because while we've been at delicate moments before,
30 minutes, 36 seconds
never have we been at delicate moments like this with nuclear arms, advanced biotechnology, and artificial
30 minutes, 44 seconds
intelligence, any one of which can wreck the world. And we are at war in many places. And the wars are thoughtless.
30 minutes, 56 seconds
And I know all of the places uh that are at war right now from firsthand
31 minutes, 2 seconds
experience. I know Ukraine because I advise not only Russia but also the Ukrainian government, President Leonid
31 minutes, 9 seconds
Kuchma. I know Israel and Palestine because as an American Jew, I've been going to uh Israel since 1972. So that's
31 minutes, 19 seconds
54 years. And I'm absolutely beside myself with dismay and anger at
31 minutes, 27 seconds
how Israel has uh so violently uh committed mass murder in my opinion.
31 minutes, 36 seconds
And that could have been and should have been prevented. Period. Uh we need
31 minutes, 46 seconds
Palestine alongside Israel uh to have a state and equal rights and peace. And I
31 minutes, 55 seconds
know Iran also because I've been dealing with Iranian senior officials for years and years and I meet the president of
32 minutes, 3 seconds
Iran every year. uh again I did so last week uh in uh when he came to the United
32 minutes, 10 seconds
Nations for the last three years. This is a man of peace. He's a heart surgeon actually and he said I cannot understand
32 minutes, 18 seconds
the American attitude. Every time we want to negotiate they try to kill us. I don't understand it. And so I and I by
32 minutes, 27 seconds
the way I know the wars in Sudan because I've seen how those evolved. I know the wars in the DRC because I've worked in
32 minutes, 35 seconds
that country. All of these wars could stop, with the goodwill, with right
32 minutes, 42 seconds
thinking, with putting aside the idea of primacy or dominance or showing how tough you are, or the United States
32 minutes, 50 seconds
bombing another country and killing its leaders, which should not be done. This is not complicated. or expanding NATO
32 minutes, 58 seconds
after we promise NATO won't expand uh up to Russia's borders. All of these things are avoidable. So yes, I feel that the
33 minutes, 7 seconds
current situation is is as crucial and as much of a hinge of
33 minutes, 15 seconds
history as any that I've seen. And uh I wasn't uh born yet in 1945. That was a
33 minutes, 22 seconds
hinge period. But in 1991, we had a hinge period and we did not pursue peace the way we should have. And we have
33 minutes, 31 seconds
another hinge period farther along, far more dangerous even now. Now, as the
33 minutes, 38 seconds
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists says, we are at 89 seconds to midnight. In other words, we're on the very brink of
33 minutes, 46 seconds
disaster. And so, we have to get this right. I think for for listeners, many of whom I think will be Americans of
33 minutes, 55 seconds
different political backgrounds and affiliations, will listen to everything that you've said and the spirit in which you've said it and wonder how
34 minutes, 3 seconds
representative is this Vatican advisor's political perspective of the Vatican itself.
34 minutes, 14 seconds
I'm not the right one to ask [laughter] and I'm not a Vatican adviser. I am an academician of the Pontipical Academy of
34 minutes, 22 seconds
Social Sciences. Uh I have my views and I have my experience. I've worked in uh
34 minutes, 28 seconds
about 150 countries in the world, maybe uh one or a few less than that, but
34 minutes, 35 seconds
something on that order. I know most of the world leaders and I've been a senior UN official. Dollar a year, I might add.
34 minutes, 45 seconds
Uh but I never saw those dollars. So they owe me $26 somewhere. But I've been a senior UN official uh advisor, let me
34 minutes, 54 seconds
say, uh for 26 years. So I've seen a lot of the world and my own life
35 minutes, 2 seconds
experience, a very lucky one, is that since uh the 1970s, I've been
35 minutes, 11 seconds
able to see the world firsthand. and since the 1980s able to advise governments firsthand. So, I've seen a lot and uh I know we can pull through.
35 minutes, 23 seconds
Um and um I do count on the Catholic Social Teachings to help us do so.
35 minutes, 29 seconds
Jeffrey Saxs, thank you for sitting down with Catholic News Service. Great to be with you.

 

Posted by at

No comments:

Post a Comment

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)