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hi I'm Steve Clemens and I have a
question why does the US want Africa to have permanent seats on the UN Security Council but without veto power let's get line it's one of the most debated questions in the history of the United Nations why do only five countries have veto power over all decisions at the security Council for almost 80 years they've been at the top of the food chain China France Russia the UK and of course the United States the world has changed since then but the UN Security Council has not decades ago the P5 or the permanent 5 as they're called decided to allow countries to join as rotating non-permanent members with no veto after all the Security Council is the most powerful body at the UN with the ability to impose sanctions and to authorize the use of force against countries and now Washington is talking about creating permanent seats for two African nations but get this with no veto power why and why now today we're talking with adikan Chom boriqua former ambassador of the African Union to the United States Ambassador it's terrific to have you back on our show I want to start with a film clip of the US ambassador of the United Nations Linda Thomas Greenfield let's listen as it stands there are currently three nonpermanent seats on the security Council allocated to African countries on a rotating basis for two years the problem is these elected seats don't enable African countries to deliver the full benefit of their knowledge and voices to the work of the council to consistently lead on the challenges that disproportionately affect Africa that is why in addition to nonpermanent memberships for African countries the United States supports creating two permanent seats for Africa on the council it's what our African partners seek and we believe this is what is just Ambassador chior let me ask you on a scale of 1 to 10 how enthusiastic are you about the proposal that the made I think it's a step in the right direction however keeping in mind that this issue has been on the table ongoing for like you said it 80 years if we are going to write the wrong why can't we just write this wrong once and for all if Africa is going to become a member of the UN Security Council a permanent member they must have the full rights just like the other five members which means they must have V power inviting Africa to the table and then asking them to remain mute it's an insult not only to the African leaders but it is an insult to 1.4 billion people we appreciate what Ambassador Greenfield um is saying we appreciate the efforts she has made but if she is going to complete this journey this journey that has been going on for far too long a journey that clearly exemplifies the continued disrespect of the African continent Ambassador Greenfield must push for us to take this issue to the Finish Line Africa must have two permanent seats at the UN Security Council with full veto power nothing less is acceptable and I do believe that the United Nations understanding how long this issue has been going on how long the disrespect of the African continent has been going on it is shameful that United Nations would want to continue to blatantly disrespect the Africans by inviting them to the table but then saying sorry you can't eat you can only watch us play our games you can watch us enjoy the 10 course mail what a joke what an insult and I do hope that the African leaders are not going to accept it Africa must be at the table as a permanent member of the UN Security Council and the two seats must have V power plain and simple period do you think Ambassador Thomas Greenfield doesn't understand this do you do you think what do you think is be behind this offer when you said hey you appreciate the progress she's made we do know that this was a promise or a commitment that President Joe Biden is trying to fulfill before the end of his term but do you think they they um are not aware about how controversial it is to create permanent seats without votes of course they know what they're doing so again that's where the disrespect comes in they know what they're doing they know what the right thing to do is no we do not want to dilute our veto power if we give two more seats with veto power no we are simply saying the slice is big enough the world is bigger than five countries representing over 7 billion people we're simply saying serious wrongs have been perpetrated against black people here is an opportunity for President Biden to write this wrong this is an opportunity that we cannot miss Africans must be at the table 1.4 billion people must be represented the continued disrespect of the Africans has got to come to an end so we're asking President Biden and his running mate CA Harris who I hope will be the next president of the United States they will write this wrong once and for all and Ambassador Thomas Greenfield we understand all the work that you have done please as a sister as an ambassador we're asking you to take this issue to the Finish Line permanent positions on the UN Security Council with full veto power like the other five PS I've seen that China and Russia are enthusiastic and do support uh Africa's position on the security Council with two permanent seats but I have not seen whether they would um uh actually agree to giving the veto to African countries as well your thoughts Well normally like most issues pertaining to Africa what I've found is that the United Nations usually sorry not the United Nations the United States usually has the final say if the United States is going to come in and say we support fully Africa being on the UN Security Council with full veto power I can assure you the other four members will follow suit the United States if the United States decides they do not wish for Africa to have veto power it will not happen but if the United States decides they do want Africa to have veto power the other countries I'm pretty sure will follow suit what of the things that Linda Thomas Greenfield the ambassador of the United States un said um about her resistance to giving more countries a veto on this is that it would make the council more dysfunctional and it made me wonder whether Any Nation should have a veto power is there a model uh in the future of the United Nations where we suspend veto power for all countries and we go to majority votes on key decisions first of all I find that very that comment very very insulting you're are simply suggesting that the addition of two African countries is going to make the process dysfunctional what an insult if this particular situation we're talking a country like Germany if we're talking uh any of the other European countries joining as members uh of the UN Security Council with VTO power would she still find it as a move that will introduce dysfunction or is it the introduction of two black African countries that is problematic what really makes it very sad is that the voices are coming out of the mouth of a black woman The Voice those words are coming out of the mouth of an African-American who must understand certain language cannot be used particularly when we were talking about uh the international platform to suggest that introducing two African countries will introduce dysfunction it is sad it is disrespectful and it will will not be tolerated Ambassador Thomas Greenfield really needs to retract those words and she need to explain herself to say what do you mean dysfunction exactly how are the two African countries going to introduce dysfunction unless of course the entity has already been dysfunctional which in my in my opinion is the case and that is what really is the problem with the United Nations it's a dysfunctional entity it is a a toothless bulldog and they need to do what they are mandated to do by the world so yes no Africa is not going to introduce any dysfunction at the United Nations The Entity itself has been dysfunctional maybe an addition of two African countries might straighten it up and create some normaly and for a change have an entity that's going to truly represent people of the world as it is relationship it is an entity that was designed to steal from the developing nations it is an entity whose entire purpose and plan and reason for being created was to to steal from developing nations so let's be clear if we are going to speak truth to power the UN Security Council has been dysfunctional remains dysfunctional until it is an entity that truly represents the whole world at this point the UN security Council does not represent the world so yes they should be ashamed it is a dysfunctional uh uh entity that maybe the inclusion of other nations might actually make it less dysfunctional let me ask you to to respond to uh Martin Kimani who is the former Kenyan ambassador to the United Nations and he writes how does having one or two African countries with veto power further Collective African interests by the time Africa tears itself apart politically to choose those two countries a fight that will be egged on by global Powers we will end up with deep division possibly in perpetuity UNC reform must be preceded by Major African Union reform your thoughts and reaction to that Ambassador chomore with all due respect I disagree with the brother uh severely Africa must be at the table we must be where decisions are being made we must be in a position to also disagree or agree on global issues yes while I understand the dysfunction among us as Africans at the African Union and I've always said this that at this point we don't have the right leadership at the African Union and I'm hoping that with the new elections that are coming up in uh February of next year we are going to have an African Union chair with a head over their shoulders right now we don't have any leadership at the African Union musaf faki has failed us he's a puppet of the West we all know that so yes I agree with him on one end that we do need reform at the African Union the good thing for us is there are elections coming up mustafi is going to be gone and our hope is we are going to have uh a new chairman of the African Union who understand the issues and is going going to reform the African Union where it can truly represent the people that is where we need we got our own homework to do but that doesn't mean we should give it an opportunity to be at the table so to just run off and say well we're disfunctional at the African Union and therefore we are not going to to demand that seat at the uh at the United Nations uh uh Security Council that's actually stupid we need to be there while we continue to for our African Union while we continue to work together and I can tell you the African leaders they work together the issue is do we have someone at the African Union who can Implement and execute the wishes of the African Union they have a system even for choosing the chairman of the African Union it's on a rotational basis I don't see the African leaders having any problem deciding which two countries are going to be the first ones they just use the same rotational process so no I disagree with that Ambassador uh s ly we need to be at the table but more importantly I am so glad that mfak is leaving and I'm hoping that the next chairman of African Union come February is going to be a panafrican who's going to stand up defend Africa and represent the continent like we must be represented we demand that and I'm hoping that we'll get that come February if the United Nations and the permanent five are more and more anachronistic more disconnected from the way power is distributed in the world and you know haven't even begun talking about India or Brazil or other major states and their roles in the security Council aren't they going to develop ways that you can get around the UN that Africa can have voice and Power in other ways why does this debate about the permanent five matter so much well it matters in the sense that there needs to be true representation at the United Nations the United Nations is not about five countries the United Nations is about all countries of the world as a matter of fact the United Nations should have undergone reform a long time ago so the issue is about having an entity like the United Nations that is controlled by five countries where the other countries have no voice where the other countries the five countries can just veto anything they don't like I mean it is so unfair the fact that in 2024 we're still discussing this it's it's it's just crazy that just goes to underscore how insane our world is so yes yes what you're going to see is the global South coming together that is this is this kind of behavior uh that is leading to uh the formation of the bricks the global World saying the global South saying we have been asking for Equity we've been asking and demanding equality and true representation at the global stage at every level be it at the United Nations be it in the financial systems be it with World Trade organizations organizations the global South countries are constantly being traed on and so it's going to lead to another system that's going to be created where the rest of the world is going to say enough is enough we're tired of your entities that are not representing us so to the United Nations and the rest of the western world uh particularly the the um the five nations on the permanent Security Council they also need to see the writing on the wall and realize that the world is changing the world is more aware of the geopolitics and what's really going on and many voices are speaking out as to the wrongs that must be writed so the sooner they address this issue the better of the world is going to be this abusive situation where um less developed countries are being taken advantage of uh and being dictated to that is not going to continue to work anymore and and the P5 Nations must see the writing on the wall and do the right thing starting with Africa and then other countries like India Brazil they too need to be on they need to be represented because they are representing millions of people so you can't just have 1.4 million people in India being voiceless so yes after Africa we must bring India that's that would be my suggestion and slowly get more countries right now the United Nations as it stands it does not represent the world they're just using other countries to come to the United Nations so they can say president say yes we were there you know it is actually I have been saying this for years that if I could uh influence the African leaders in anyway shape or form they need to boycott attending the the United Nations General Assembly there's nothing there for them they're just coming there to validate other people's issues so if Africa was to really speak with one voice they need to boyot the uh the United Nations General Assembly there's nothing there for there for them they're just wasting taxpayers money having hundreds of them coming to the United Nations for what you know don't come to the United Nations tell the United Nations if you don't fix this if we're not members of the UN Security Council we're not attending un plain and simple but unfortunately they're not going to do it you Africa needs to have a backb Africa needs to have a backb well you know you've been working for a very long time you know since we've known each other to really unite Africans their purpose their sense of identity and to end and diminish uh foreign control and dominance of African States and I guess my question to you in this moment and when again you're you're on the same Mission what's getting in the way what's getting in the way of the Adana chiori mission to end dominance of Africa to empower Africans and unite Africans I think one of the biggest problems and challenges that we have I often say as black people not only black people in Africa but black people around the world we were defeated where it matters the most which is the mind I am going to say this honestly and sincerely and some people may not like it but it is our reality we have African governments that have some members of the governments who are on the payrolls of foreign Nations we have Africans who are willing to be influenced to be bought to be paid in order to derail not only the Continental agenda but also agendas of their own countries development you tell me why is it that we have Ministers of Finance who come to Washington twice a year to discuss issues to do with funding uh for uh for Africa Financial issues for Africa why haven't they come together and taken a position to truly challenge the World Bank and say these loans that you continue to make us pay have been paid for gazillion times they were IL legally acquired um I'm encouraging everybody to read the book confessions of the economic Hitman where they talk about exactly how they would force these countries to accept these humongous loans it was all a game at the expense of the African people our people know that but why aren't they standing up and pushing back and uh calling a SP as SPID one we have some that are on the payrolls of foreign governments and yet they are in the government themselves El shame on them two we have some that are just scared of those who don't look like us again is part of the legacy of colonization and the legacy of slavery we have some serious healing to do as Africans when it comes to our minds no other men on Earth in any leadership position would tolerate the abuse the Africans are tolerating blatant abuse so our bigger issue is the Mind our inability to back our men standing up and being men like other men around the world a lot of it has to do with some on an individual basis greed others is just the mind we're afraid of white people we don't want to speak up in meetings because we're afraid will be labeled it's it's the mind at the end of the day for me it is the mind that was defeated and until the mind is awoken and the mind is fearless and the mind mind simply says what's right is right what is wrong is wrong come to the United Nations challenge the United Nations go to the World Bank challenge the World Bank with facts and knowledge of what is really going on call these nations out tell them to stop the abuse which is blatant these nations are not trying to hide the abuse the abuse is blatant so to the Africans I say stand up have a backbone speak up and for those in power people appointed you into positions so you can represent the people and to the people I say to the Africans if a leader is not representing you well vote them out we are sick and tired of being misrepresented by our leadership vote them out if they don't represent you well at a community level in your country vote them out if they're not representing you well at the world stage they know the facts our people are now empowered they know the games that are being played by the Western World by the Eastern World they are telling their leadership we don't want it anymore so we are demanding leadership that's going to defend us leadership that's going to speak up leadership that's going to say do unto us as you want done unto you our ask as Africans is a very simple one we want the world to treat us the way they would want to be treated and our leaderships our leaders are our mouthpiece we expect them to speak up we expect them to defend Us by any means necessary what we need are leaders that are awoken fearless and are ready to defend Africa like they were manded to do by the people thank you well you've set expectations very high we'll have to see how that plays out I want to thank the former ambassador of the African Union to the United States adoni homeor qua thank you so much to for being with pleasure thank thank you so much Steve I appreciate you keep up the good work so what's the bottom line on paper it just sounds great the US wants to make room for African and other nations on the UN Security Council but here's the rub nobody gets veto power except the original P5 the United States the UK Russia France and China what an outdated anachronistic lineup of Nations where's Brazil where's India where's South Africa so this obsolete version of power is kind of like a slow-moving train wreck stumbl in Into the Future a future where the Big Five have less and less relevance to the way power actually works in the world instead of being the architect of a new Global Order that brings in the New Rising powers and decreases Global dysfunction America is clinging to a power arrangement from nearly 80 years ago knowing full well that this Arrangement is getting weaker and weaker and one day it's just going to fall over and that's the bottom line 
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